Metagame NFE

Alright, so at this point everyone should know that I involved myself in OMPL by helping Fade/Crying for Fluttermania even if I never told it publically. The backstory was that Adem was looking for NFE people, asking me who I would recommend and not me because he understood I was busy. But I volunteered because at this point getting any other recent NFE builders was like trying to pick something that doesn't exist lmao. They understood my warnings (hardly active or post the ideas I'll be attempting to build, and will not put the time to prep so they'll have to do the scouting) so I accepted it as I'll be building teams for them. I expected a positive record for Fluttermania, and I got it with a 4-2 record overall. Will say that Fade could have gone undefeated all the games, but those games vs Clean and Tuthur were more over Fade's fault as they admit because I think the MU was clearly in our favor in those matches. Anyway, I'll go briefly on each week to explain how my team works. I didn't prep as I mentioned above, only self-scouting and focusing on exploring teams by optimizing or innovating. But there is player-specific stuff I am like very much aware of like Lepton, 5dots, etc so I may have some ideas about what to build with that mind. I will say after week 2 I kinda forgot what the previous teams were and began just focusing to build to explore archetypes at that point. I'll be posting my thoughts and what I'll do onward with SV NFE personally (warning: not a positive one fyi).


W1: Hazard Stack, Pivot focused Offensive team
:Dartrix: :Eelektrik: :Gastly: :Frogadier: :Gabite: :Tinkatuff:
My mind was that Specs Gastly had the ability to 2hko everything that wasn't Spdef tank or 3hko them even if they had Eviolite, and had a difficult STAB combo to cover at that time. Teamed it up with Pivoting + Spikes because they were pretty spammable at that point and Gastly took advantage of that in theory. After seeing the game though, I find that the Scarf version was probably the superior version, but I still liked the concept although.

Here's my thought process for both Specs and Scarf set if you're wondering how I went through it.
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W2: Balance ft Specs Rest Girafarig n SD Sneasel
:Girafarig: :Tinkatuff: :Dartrix: :Gabite: :Sneasel: :Mareanie:
I think Lepton was the only person I did not want to lose because I knew my prediction post would make her upset, so while I did not try to hyper prep I was clearly aware of her flaws at that time. Kinda felt like building a balance team to wear her down as her teams lacks longivity, but giving some twist such as bringing Specs Girafarig to put immense pressure against her Tinkatuff and SD Sneasel because Sneasel was needed for keeping an eye against stuff. Fade took a lot of control in this match and was kinda dominant in this game goddamn. There's not much else team process here ngl, but I will mention that in this era Vigoroth and Girafarig were some of the scariest endgame sweepers and I made Gabite Rest/Talk with Dragon tail as a trend prep just in case.

Also a huge shoutout to Clem for ev checking <333333333 I'll need to learn to do that to myself :totodiLUL:.


W3: Balance with a lot of bulk, ft SD Qwilfish, and CM Rattled Dunsparce
:Tinkatuff: :Qwilfish-Hisui: :Frogadier: :Dartrix: :Dunsparce: :Crocalor:
I quickly noticed that I would need to have a special attacker to revenge-kill Hwilfish, which is the type of counterplay I really don't like because it enforces teams to run Special Attackers or has a faster mon since it's the best and most consistent to handle Hwilfish, very similar to Misdreavus and some degree Gabite. I was out working and traveling this week so I didn't spend much time for Week 3. So I felt like going for Dartrix Balance once again because that stuff is consistent. However, I was stuck in a position where I felt overwhelmed to cover offensive threats like Fraxure, Gabite, and many more at the same time. Not wanting to go back to Mareanie, I took my time and figured out a good ol set when I used before it became so standardized right now: Calm Mind Dunsparce. This thing tanks Physical Attackers and Special Attackers like a champ with the calc that is so guaranteed that it's so criminal. I did not want to rely on haxxing so I went on Rattled as it had some genuine niche back in Pivot Meta as a bulky sweeper that's also fast sounds broken in my mind. Unfortunately, yall lil shits went for the Serene Grace for the hax bullshit, and look where we are at right now. I'll take the full credit for creating CM Dunsparce, but I'll not take the responsibility of going for the haxfest thing yall are going for the endgame. Also at this point, Hydro Pump was needed to secure kills against Hwilfish. Tl;dr
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As for how the match went, Fade just woke up and immediately played the game. The game did not go as well at the start but Clean's entire team was losing to CM Dunsparce so I was like aight we still winning. Then they stood in Frogadier with 4 mons behind, and didn't know Gen 9 Frogadier learned Switcheroo and that's the end of the game rip. The matchup looks hella rough for Clean btw because they don't have a lot of ways to handle CM Dunsparce, like I don't think any of them are capable to 2HKO it from full health with or without Eviolite lmao. I am still happy with the team though, so I ain't gonna be complaining tbh, it happens.

Here are some screenshots of my process on this building. Also huge S/O for Clem for EV checking, that's my goat there.
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W4: Para-Stall team
:Sliggoo-Hisui: :Crocalor: :Hattrem: :Dartrix: :Mareanie: :Dunsparce:
(Please use this updated team I made today. I personally like this team and believe it could work these days.
Description
This week I was traveling two airplanes for a smash local(needed that more than I expected), so I did not feel like trying new stuff or I got actually time to build. I remember someone said that Tuthur teams were usually weak to Stall, and I took that to my heart. Stall is notoriously bad in NFE, but I try to do the impossible. Idk how I feel about the matchup, but I felt like it was somehow in my favor since I had the flowchart to check their threats enough to wear them down. Fade blamed themself for this week, but I would personally say I would rather not win with this team because while there are great concepts here there are also a lot of flaws I personally dislike myself when looking back on this.

The team put heavy emphasis on getting Hwilfish Paralyzed so my Dartrix and Crocolar could revenge kill them with ease. Most other offensive get hella vibe checked by the others, though the DD Fraxure was something I had to be careful of, hence Icy Wind Mareanie x Dunsparce x Dartrix. If it was SD Fraxure though, yh ggs lmao.
I made Sliggo-H more physdef so it can tank two hits from 2+ Crunch. Felt like Crocolar could run Eviolite bc of the strong hazard control and everyone else feels like self-explanatory.

Here are some screenshots for the thought process, and another huge S/O to Clem for EV checking once again.
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HAH, YOU THOUGHT I HAD TEAMS? Should have read the description, I had literally no teams get trolled :totodiLUL::totodiLUL::totodiLUL:

Also!!! Ojr, Greybaum, Lepton, 5dots, Pandadoux, Clean, Tuthur, King Leo V, Elle, Fade, Shaneghoul, Lyna, FranziskaSkye, and Stareal smells bad :blobnauseated::blobnauseated::blobnauseated: (seriously thanks for playing NFE btw)


W5: Hyper Offense Screens Morgrem with Scarf Frog x Taunt Spam Sweepers
:Morgrem: :Frogadier: :Drakloak: :Fraxure: :Qwilfish-Hisui: :Vigoroth:
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>Said them to ignore these filler teams
>Proceed to play one of these teams and win

Okay so at this, I traveled home on Monday, worked all day, and focused on the gym so no free time, then used my entire free time to prepare 12-15 ppl coming for my home tournament at the weekend(one of my funniest experiences I have had all of my life). Honestly, I didn't get even much time to build at all, so I was like oh fuck I kinda forgot to build a team for them. But then they pulled this out and now I am in conflict of wanting to explain this team LMAO. I really don't want to, but it's the only time I made HO here so I feel like I should. Leo should have not lost to this, as he explained he got showdown glitched where they did not change the nature of frog at the end so it became modest instead of timid, poor Leo :/

To make it quick, I was kinda tired of using Dartrix teams and was in that state of thinking about Hazard Removal. Being annoyed as fuck by it I was just so tilted by the meta right now and went, let's just build a HO team because it had always some insane potential in this meta. I wanted Screens Morgrem bc of taunt, but I wanted to punish Sneasel/Pawn if they ran with Brick Break so I was like yh fuck u like fr fr and ran Drain Punch as a response to that. Drakloak is a very funny one because Protect + Disable was the best way to prevent it from defogging unless you're going full-aggressive against them with Fire Blast/Tbolt tech. DD Fraxure and SD Hwilfish are very much needed to cripple Vigoroth's set before it can start cleaning up. Personally, I don't think this team ages very well, especially against Brick Break Tinkatuff and their interactions in general, and it can be overwhelmed by opposing Frogadier. But it's a very fun concept and I found some more HO optimization to begin with.

Protip building HO: Your goal should be hyper-focusing on covering Defoggers, not losing momentum against Tinkatuff, and finding Sweepers that can set up on Scarf Frogadier, always need to have one or two mons faster than Hwilfish-H btw. Fraxure and Hwilfish are not mandatory, however, they're some of the easiest sweepers to synergize with. But you'll need to have Taunt on your HO team. Taunt Mons simply shuts down a lot of annoying tools that would limit your momentum at once, and are just generally very broken against the defensive mons generally.

W6: :Wooper: :wo::woo::woop::woo::wo::woo::woop::woo::wo::woo::woop::woo::wo::woo::woop::woo::wo::Wooper:
Description
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Playing rfn on a Thursday and asked me right away for a team without me starting to build anything. Thank god I had some teams and bless god for Stareal picking the greatest matchup crying could have. HO teams sux if it ain't taunt in em Greybaum and Stareal ;)

They had like two teams to decide and they decided to pick this balanced team here. It's not a personal favorite one, but I found Wooper having some niche to handle defensive Tinkatuff sets and the ability to beat hazard mons in the long term got me interested enough. Not much for me to explain here, but the team has synergy and Wooper x Dartrix x Tinkatuff is an excellent defensive core imo. Would lowkey have changed Sneasel's ability from Inner Focus into Pickpocket to steal Dartrix's item, but Inner Focus helps vs Hwilfish so I decided in the favour of Hwilfish MU.

Alternative team

I'll keep Week 7 for myself personally. I've had a team prepared for Jr, but I think I'll keep it for myself atm. Someone may find some use it for playoffs so I'll keep them notes to myself. I don't really prep for Jr, but we've talked a lot so I had my share of funny thoughts about how I'll troll him. I'll eventually post them once OMPL is over though, so expect around 2-4 weeks ish.

Not needed to read, but I wanted to put it behind a box since it's a lot to read, and not everyone needs to read it tbh.
Alright after being at the Hwilfish meta, I have little to no more interest to develop the meta. Even if Hwilfish and Dunsparce get banned, I don't know if I care since those are actually not the ones that make the meta unfun for me, but I'll explain it later on tbh.
As for Dunsparce and Hwilfish, I think Pandadoux's explanation explains a lot of my issue. Hwilfish does not feel anything near broken and it can be handled as it does has this issue of setups once, can't set up another time since it's too worn out. The issue is the centralization part which it enforces teams to run a fast special attacker and one or two defensive cores to handle it, which ends a lot of teams becoming very Hwilfish x Frog x Tinkatuff x Dunsparce unless you're going for Hyper Offense or Pivot focused(which is at a decline kind of). Some people will point out that's how the last meta was beforehand, but I would disagree because most faster mons have slower, had more reliable checks, and has faulty bulk and they were not limited to only Special Attackers. Hwilfish is hardly eliminated by slower Pokemon, and very few slow Pokemon are even able to handle it at that point. As a side effect, Hwilfish made many slow Pokemon feel like not worth using not gonna lie.

I was always aware that Dunsparce was a problematic little creature since it had the bulk and coverage to make itself problematic. But with Hwilfish impacting the meta, it made Dunsparce much stronger by nerfing pivot teams, eliminating t-spikes and toxic users, making physical attacks and fighting types less attractive to use, etc. So Dunsparce became more of a problem due to the meta changes. In theory, you could say both physical(coil) and special(cm) sets cover each other's weaknesses, but that's just theory and probably not true as it's a quick assumption for me. But I do think Dunsparce can be argued to be banned even without Hwilfish due to the fact the coverage is near impossible to stop and it has numerous sets that cover each others as well. But I am not 100% on it.

Okay, the last thing is a personal pet peeve of mine and I think Tinkatuff kills my enjoyment of the game in such a way, preparing for it, covering it, and just playing against it makes the game way less fun. Every time I try to approach it in the building, it gets me annoyed because it feels like I need two mons for it. One to switch in and two to revenge kill it. The dedicated switch-ins are either getting pressured by Sword Dance set or getting easily folded by its defensive cores. Eel gets pressured by SD Tinkatuff, Ground types beside Gabite that get covered by Hattrem/Dartrix, ending up them losing Eviolite for nothing, and then other ground types have to be weak to Tinkatuff's Ice Hammer and Play Rough, of course, it can do that. It's so mindbogglingly annoying to prepare for it. There's a goddamn reason why I brought out Magnemite, and that was not because of fishing Tinkatuff, but mainly because Tinkatuff is one of the most frustrating Pokemon to deal with generally. Why do you not think the best way to switch in and make the best progress is by bringing your own goddamn Tinkatuff into the team then you'll have to see the Tinkatuff 1v1 and weaken each other because there's no good option to handle it. We got to deal with a lot of other scary shit, and this motherfucker while is important to keep an eye on things is also enabling offense in its own right because it's very good at forcing progress. So either you have 2 mons to play it around, maybe even 3 if you don't have a super effective move against it. Also is very reasonable to see because Fire, Fighting, and Ground types have been on such a huge decline because of other things. But reminder your 3rd option is Tinkatuff itself most of the time. And it bores me the hell out. Tinkatuff has so much widespread coverage to create and stop the momentum that it becomes very un-interactable to face it a lot of times, especially in this meta right now. Tinkatuff is nowhere super unhealthy, but it's just some of the most boring Pokemon to face and it just annoys me that it's the most important Pokemon to keep things in check at the same. Even if Hwilfish and Dunsparce get banned, it does not solve my personal issue of Tinkatuff making the tier unfun for me unless the meta change in a way it makes her defensive tools less strict to face if that's the right word.

On a healthy aspect, I would rather Magnet Pull be banned just because defensive Tinkatuff is very much needed for the tier right now. But for enjoyment, I found it just more interesting to interact with Tinkatuff because I didn't have to deal with encore + T-Wave at the same time and it makes building vs it just less painful, but that probably speaks for itself I just think defensive Tinkatuff + its other sets just kills my mood so I am obviously biased here lol.


I'll keep an eye on the SV NFE since I am in the council, but I've no desire to continue pushing the meta and am awaiting the new DLCs till then. Don't expect me to try to involve myself in OMWC or join NFE Seasonals, I've to prioritize my school I paid from my own pocket and I've other tiers I want to try out. I'm slowly losing interest in Competitive Pokemon as well, so may just stop paying attention not so long if that happens. Thanks for reading and a big shoutout to Fluttermania, special ones to Adem, Karpe, Fade, and Elle in the discord. And huge thanks to those I got to talk with through this OMPL, appreciate it.
 

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Greybaum

GENTLEMAN, THIS IS DEMOCRACY MANIFEST
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Following my last post, we've been in discussion with OM staff and have agreed that the best way to reach a decision on Hisuian Qwilfish is by holding a vote using recent OMPL records to decide qualified voters.
The voting eligibility list consists of the following players, all of which won a minimum of 3 games and went even or positive:
A majority of 50%+1 will be required to ban Hisuian Qwilfish, meaning 4/7 ban votes.
Voting will be closed on Sunday the 6th of August at 23:59 GMT+0, but will close earlier if a decision has conclusively been reached.
 

Greybaum

GENTLEMAN, THIS IS DEMOCRACY MANIFEST
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
And to nobody's surprise...
:sv/qwilfish-hisui:
Hisuian Qwilfish is banned from SV NFE!​
cleanfadeojrPandaDouxShaneghoulStarealTuthur
Hisuian QwilfishBanDo Not BanBanBanBanBanBan

Hisuian Qwilfish made a big debut on the NFE scene, landing itself an S rank placement on the Viability Rankings and a near 100% usage rate in OMPL.
It was easily the strongest Spikes user we've had this generation, with a threatening Dark/Poison typing that can deter traditional hazard counterplay like Dartrix and Hattrem from switching in. In an environment where Heavy-Duty Boots means forgoing Eviolite and sacrificing a significant amount of bulk, having such an effective hazard setter was already enough for some people to call into question Hisuian Qwilfish's health for the metagame, but Swords Dance compounded these worries by turning Hisuian Qwilfish into a scary win condition in its own right, using its strong STABs in addition to Liquidation or Waterfall from cousin Qwilfish to chip away at resists like Tinkatuff and Pawniard, most of which lack recovery and don't carry super effective coverage with which to retaliate. With 7 votes to 1, Hisuian Qwilfish has been banned from the tier.
Tagging Kris to implement
 

5Dots

Chairs
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
thank you, thank you, marvelous post!!!

In all seriousness, I want to share some quick sets as we look forward from OMPL:

:sv/Sliggoo-Hisui:
Sliggoo-Hisui @ Eviolite
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 116 SpA / 48 Spe
Bold Nature
- Acid Spray
- Flash Cannon
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Basically, this set outspeeds standard Dunsparce while packing enough power to 3HKO Drakloak (and formerly Qwilfish-H). Acid Spray helps against setup mons like Dunsparce, Vigoroth, and Girafarig, ensuring it's not a sitting duck against any of them. IMO Curse sets are too prone to Knock Off/Encore/Trick, and Doesn't really have enough power at +1 to justify using.
:sv/Dartrix:
Dartrix @ Eviolite
Ability: Long Reach
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Night Shade
More or less the same Dartrix set, though I've EV'd it to survive the 2HKO from +1 bulky CM Girafarig after Stealth Rock. The best I can say about Brave Bird is that it can now 2HKO Dartrix after a Knock Off and OHKO Meditite, but Night Shade's consistent damage output makes it much better IMO, given that a lot of NFE Pokemon don't have high HP stats.
:sv/Glimmet:
Glimmet @ Eviolite
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock / Spikes
- Toxic
- Mud Shot / Sludge Wave
- Power Gem / Sludge Wave
Although Glimmet is used more often than not as a hazard lead, Glimmet has decent bulk when invested. Most importantly, it gets Corrosion, meaning you can actually poison Tinkatuff, Mareanie, and Sliggoo-H, something other Toxic spreaders like Mareanie and Grimer-A cannot do. Of course, Glimmet has bad matchups against nearly all other hazard setters, but it compensates by beating out Dartrix and Fletchinder. 105 SpA also means it still isn't passive even without investment, making this role as a defensive hazard + Toxic spreader more unique.

:hippopotas: :Glimmet: :Gabite: :Drakloak: :Frogadier: :Crocalor:
This was a fun team I created before we got Hisui Pokemon, though it should still be fine here. Really weak to Frogadier and Water-types in general, but kind of funny against defensive builds. Basically, it's a hazard stack team that relies on Frog breaking before Gabite can sweep the opposition. Sand Stream can help with residual damage too. Hippo is the team's phazer and rocker, and (as I mentioned above), while Glimmet spreads status + spikes + the team's mixed tank under sand (since Sand also boosts Rock-types' SpD). While I opted for a Swords Dance + Substitute set on Gabite, Instead of going Rough Skin for Gabite, I chose Sand Veil to potentially cheese out bad matchups under Sand. Drakloak is the only Pokemon faster than Frogadier and can provide a second phazer + a spinblocker for rare Quaxwells. Frogadier is the tier's second breaker, and also helps provide a second form of speed control (though I could go for scarf to help against other Frogs). Crocalor rounds things out by providing an answer against setup sweepers like Girafarig and Sneasel, and provides Encore + Wisp utility.
 

Greybaum

GENTLEMAN, THIS IS DEMOCRACY MANIFEST
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Got a headache so I'll keep this brief - on account of the new changes being brought by DLC we're retrying a few mons...

:sv/misdreavus: :sv/naclstack: :sv/qwilfish-hisui:
Misdreavus, Naclstack, and Qwilfish-Hisui will be being unbanned! (at least initially - we'll be quick to re-ban them if needed)
:rhydon: :duraludon:
In addition, we've decided to pre-emptively ban Rhydon and Duraludon from the tier for fairly obvious reasons; they're miles above anything else stat-wise and don't exactly have switch-ins.

Don't forget to sign up for NFE Seasonal and UMPL while you can!
 

5Dots

Chairs
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
The first DLC, the Teal of the Mask, has been released! New Pokemon and new movepools means new changes in a brave new metagame.

Some old Pokemon getting movepool revamps will also gain various changes to their current standing.

Here are some returning NFE that might be viable here:
:clefairy: Clefairy
:vulpix: Vulpix
:vulpix-alola: Vulpix Alola
:weepinbell: Weepinbell
:yanma: Yanma
:gligar: Gligar
:piloswine: Piloswine
:dusclops: Dusclops
:grotle: Grotle
:monferno: Monferno
:prinplup: Prinplup
:munchlax: Munchlax
:gurdurr: Gurdurr
:vullaby: Vullaby
:hakamo-o: Hakamo-o

Here are some thoughts I have:
:Sneasel: With the coveted addition of Knock Off, Sneasel's status as a top-tier cleaner has finally been restored. No longer shall it be cursed with Brick Break, Thief, or Power Herb + Dig for coverage. Walls like Tinkatuff and Mareanie would be far less safe at checking it. Choice Scarf users like Frogadier and tanks like Gurdurr will still scare it away, but none of them appreciate Knock. And like before, it has an insane Speed tier with a potent STAB combination. Wouldn't mind seeing a ban in the near future for this Pokemon.

:Gurdurr: Bulk Up sets remain as potent as before, with its great physical bulk, power, and Guts making it scary throughout all stages of the game, especially if checks like Clefairy or special wallbreakers like Specs Frogadier or Murkrow are not present. Has a bunch of great moves to run for luring threats like Ice Punch for Dartrix and Gligar and maybe Poison Jab for Clefairy. It may be the best Defogger given the bevy of offensive moves and great physical bulk and power that makes it much less passive than Dartrix, who previously held that title.

:Gligar: No Roost, but having a bountiful utility movepool with both Spikes and Rocks, U-Turn, Knock Off, and even sweeping potential with Swords Dance makes it extremely versatile on both ends. Perhaps the new Landorus-T, I say, if this doesn't get on the chopping block.

:Weepinbell: Weepinbell likely won't be good despite being the best sun sweeper, even with Vulpix's drought. Sun has no other good abusers to pair with and Weepinbell's bulk is paltry. On paper a +Speed nature with a free turn will evisecrate everything in its path, but in practice mons like Hakamo-O, Piloswine, Sneasel, and even Sliggoo-H can wall it without much trouble.

:Vulpix: Same as Weepinbell, really. Sun lacks good chlorophyll abusers or other reliable sun abusers. Weepinbell alone isn't going to be enough to justify a slot.

:Vulpix-Alola: See above. Sandshrew-Alola will have a hard time justifying usage when Fighting-types like Gurdurr and Monferno are at its peak. Not to mention Sneasel (which still outspeeds Adamant variants) is a better Ice-type to justify use outside of hail.

:Munchlax: Probably not a bad Curse sweeper, though not very good either. Thick Fat + fantastic special bulk are two good things, but its huge passivity means it needs a lot of support in order to fulfill its role.

:Yanma: Same thing as Flittle, really. If it were to have Terastalization, it could actually be a very niche but potentially scary sweeper. Without it, it's not good at all. Aside from maybe Gurdurr, Yanma will likely lose to anything relevant not weak to Reversal without significant chip.

:Dusclops: Same old Dusclops doing the same thing it did other generations. It's a good wall that offers good utility for defensive teams with Wisp and Pressure, though the ubiquity of Knock is not kind to it and reliance on Night Shade for damage makes it very passive and only capable on defensive teams. Calm Mind sets could be unique and worth a look despite its terrible offenses, especially towards the end of a game.

:Grotle: Might be a better Shell Smasher than Sinistea, which is faint praise. It didn't hit as hard as I wanted to and was hard to justify over Thwackey, a more reliable setup sweeper. Loss of Rocks and Superpower doesn't help its case either.

:Prinplup: No Defog and no Scald sucks. Quaxwell would be the better choice (and Quaxwell has been trending downwards for a considerably long time). Competitive isn't enough to distinguish it.

:Monferno: Faces strict competition with Gurdurr but the much higher Speed, U-turn, and Fire STAB make it versatile too. Loads of sets to choose like Choice Scarf, Choice Band, Swords Dance, Nasty Plot, Lead...Monferno can take any offensive role well and excel. Same Monferno as previous gens, really.
 

Greybaum

GENTLEMAN, THIS IS DEMOCRACY MANIFEST
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Howdy. We're going to be keeping an eye on NFE Seasonal and UMPL to decide if we need to perform any quick tiering action, but in the mean time here's two announcements:

First, we're unbanning Magnemite and instead banning Magnet Pull. The initial ban was a soft ban on Magnet Pull because there weren't any other legal users, so this is just a slight update in light of the DLC additions. Tagging Kris for implementation - thanks!

Secondly, and more importantly, Shing has decided to step down from the NFE council. Thank you for your hard work in both this gen and prior ones, and I hope you have fun with whatever comes next for you.
 
Hello there! It is Mirbro again.

I felt compelled by not writing here for so long. In addition, with the new DLC mons and the unbans, the meta has changed A LOT, causing resources to be outdated. The fact that we have UMPL and Seasonals going on right now make that activity around NFE is higher than some weeks ago, but people feels a bit lost because of the DLC-unban chaos. Thus, I wanted to talk a bit about the trends we have seen from both UMPL and seasonals. I plan to post some general thoughts and a deeper analysis when both tours end.

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Piloswine | 8 | 100.00% | 50.00% |
| 2 | Gurdurr | 7 | 87.50% | 57.14% |
| 3 | Clefairy | 6 | 75.00% | 50.00% |
| 4 | Qwilfish-Hisui | 3 | 37.50% | 33.33% |
| 5 | Sneasel | 3 | 37.50% | 33.33% |
| 6 | Thwackey | 3 | 37.50% | 66.67% |
| 7 | Frogadier | 3 | 37.50% | 100.00% |
| 8 | Misdreavus | 3 | 37.50% | 33.33% |
| 9 | Vullaby | 3 | 37.50% | 33.33% |
| 10 | Drakloak | 2 | 25.00% | 0.00% |
| 11 | Koffing | 1 | 12.50% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Tinkatuff | 1 | 12.50% | 100.00% |
| 13 | Monferno | 1 | 12.50% | 0.00% |
| 14 | Naclstack | 1 | 12.50% | 100.00% |
| 15 | Raboot | 1 | 12.50% | 100.00% |
| 16 | Eelektrik | 1 | 12.50% | 0.00% |
| 17 | Gligar | 1 | 12.50% | 0.00% |

Replays:
Mirbro vs Elleapple
clean vs shaneghoul
lepton vs awyp
Pandadoux vs shiloh

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Gurdurr | 10 | 76.92% | 50.00% |
| 2 | Piloswine | 9 | 69.23% | 55.56% |
| 3 | Clefairy | 8 | 61.54% | 62.50% |
| 4 | Misdreavus | 6 | 46.15% | 33.33% |
| 5 | Frogadier | 5 | 38.46% | 60.00% |
| 6 | Thwackey | 5 | 38.46% | 60.00% |
| 7 | Qwilfish-Hisui | 4 | 30.77% | 25.00% |
| 8 | Sneasel | 4 | 30.77% | 50.00% |
| 9 | Raboot | 4 | 30.77% | 75.00% |
| 10 | Tinkatuff | 3 | 23.08% | 33.33% |
| 11 | Naclstack | 3 | 23.08% | 66.67% |
| 12 | Koffing | 2 | 15.38% | 50.00% |
| 13 | Drakloak | 2 | 15.38% | 0.00% |
| 14 | Monferno | 2 | 15.38% | 50.00% |
| 15 | Vullaby | 2 | 15.38% | 50.00% |
| 16 | Quaxwell | 2 | 15.38% | 100.00% |
| 17 | Gligar | 2 | 15.38% | 50.00% |
| 18 | Eelektrik | 1 | 7.69% | 0.00% |
| 19 | Charmeleon | 1 | 7.69% | 100.00% |
| 20 | Mareanie | 1 | 7.69% | 100.00% |
| 21 | Vulpix | 1 | 7.69% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Weepinbell | 1 | 7.69% | 100.00% |

Replays from ssnls w1:
RoFnA vs lepton 1 2 3

Overall, we see that some of the new DLC Pokémon are significantly overtaking the old meta.

:Gurdurr: has significant bulk to stop threats such as Piloswine and Sneasel, while being able to Defog Piloswine's Stealth Rock. Bulk Up sets are incredibly good making progress in mid-game (with Knock Off) and cleaning late-game (with Drain Punch and Mach Punch) when most special attackers are gone or weak enough to fall by Mach Punch.

:Piloswine: An old friend. In SS NFE it already was one of the best mons of the whole gen. Now he has come back to claim lifes with Choice Band sets and set up Stealth Rock. Decent bulk as well. However, this time has no Electabuzz to check around which makes CB sets more common.

:Clefairy: As Shing put it in the past "perfect glue". It really is, even though has some 4mss: Clefairy wants to run Moonlight/Wish, Thunder Wave, Night Shade/Moonblast, Stealth Rock, Trick/Knock Off... All at once sometimes! However, this also gives it a lot of flexibility. Clefairy is the only Pokémon that can check both special attackers and physical attackers at the same time (properly). It can check Piloswine, Frogadier, Drakloak... and mainly Gurdurr, threatening it with Trick/Knock Off and Moonblast.

:Misdreavus: Best special attack set up Pokémon with NP and Substitute/Pain Split variants. However, because of Vullaby being present now, Thwackey gaining Grassy Glide, Sneasel being unbanned, Piloswine with Ice Shard... now it is worse than before the DLC. But still it can put some work against unprepared teams.

:Frogadier: In my opinion, one of the best Pokémon right now. Both Eviolite Pivot and Choice Specs sets are really good at breaking. I got wrecked by an unset but which shows how good it is. Moreover, it can also set up Spikes.

:Thwackey: SD sets with Grassy Glide are good now, not that good as before but still good. They can pivot around, Knocking everything Off and basically giving utility while some cleaning. It is really good as there is a lot of Frogadier and Piloswine around. CB sets are a bit underwhelming imo.

:Qwilfish-Hisui: It was really good pre-DLC, now it is good. Both SD and Spikes sets are worth it and can help to check some Pokémon thks to Intimidate and typing (mixed bulky sets are good for role compression and checking Pokémon such as Misdreavus). Be careful of Poison Point sets, these are nasty.

:Sneasel: Imo, underwhelming. It is true that work within some core really well. But otherwise, they have a hard time sweeping and not being KOed by Gurdurrs around.

:Raboot: The new meta has helped it a lot. Raboot is the perfect pivot while giving him chances to clean.

:Tinkatuff: I think that is worse than before. Still is good having the Pickpocket Knock Off shenanigans while setting up Stealth Rock. However, common Pokémon such as Gligar, Piloswine, and even Gurdurr threaten it a lot. Spikes are kind of common which decreases its longevity. However, their SD sets are a bit unexplored and could be really good.

Other mentions! :Naclstack: really underwhelming, some cleaning potential but Gurdurr, Piloswine, Frogadier, and Thwackey threaten it a lot. :Vullaby: Defog and Misdreavus/Drakloak/Thwackey check while pivot around. Good mon but has some issues long-term. :Gligar: new Pokémon that can check Gurdurr but not damage it that much. Important hazard setter, Knock Off user, and pivot. :Quaxwell: Now it has Flip Turn and can check both Piloswine and Frogadier, which is HUGE. Imo, a raising Pokémon.

Next post more information! I am going to update every week the NFE stats :). Have fun Pokémaniacs in these tours!
 
Just wanna speak out my quick thoughts before I sleep.

The DLC and the unbans have definitely shaken the tier and become a whole new one. The distribution the tier has received such as:
- More flexible Knock Off users(plus Thief and Trick/Switcheroo users as well)
- A huge increase not only on the speed tier from the amount of the mons themself, but priority becoming a staple to the tier right now
- Increase of more pivot users on both offensive and defensive users due to distributions such as Flip Turn increasing to a lot of water mons
- More Bulky and Offensive mons at the same package making the tier have more long-lasting switch-ins while threatening out, plus having very good typing to handle the current meta
- While I don't think it changes the whole meta a lot, we have a decent amount of defensive mons that are there to handle new threats
- We got more flexible hazard control with two important defoggers, a spinner that got buffed with pivoting and Hattrem potentially due to the meta changes
- I do still think it's one-sided to hazard users due to the newly introduced hazard users and Missy coming back, but you've more options overall that you're able to do against it​

Having these in mind, I believe that meta has obviously become more offensive and fast-paced it definitely threw off a lot of NFE players who played in the last patch because we were already very used to the balance-slow paced metagame where it's much easier to be on defense but also the fact there are so many things you've to take on account makes it trickier to figure things out. I do think I've some strong ideas on the direction the meta is going for, and what to watch out for. And I'll be telling at least what I've observed.

I like to tackle the speed control aspect since I'm admittedly a speed creeper and take advantage of that to the fullest extent. Examples:
>106(Clef, Koffing, Naclstack),
>116(Gurdurr)
>126(Mareanie, etc)
>134(Hattrem/Crocalor)
>179/181(Gurdurr speed at fullest/2+ lets you become faster than Sneasel),
>199(CB Piloswine)
>219/229(lot of mons shares around that tier
>251(Jolly Nature mons to be faster than Sneasel at+1)
>295(keynote due to Missy/Gligar/Qwilfish-H)
These are what I try to be sure I'm in control of at the building, especially 295 because the mons there have the wincon ability to shut mons below the speed tier due to utility, bulk, and sweeping potential overall. Everyone else faster lacks either the bulk or has some sort of 4mss(Vigoroth only tbh). It does make me think a lot about whether the general teams are forced to run with a mon or two faster than 295 speed criteria or not, as I do believe offensive/pivot-based teams need to have that which makes me think that if a team lacks ways to hit 295 mons, I consider them too slow before it's a solid team to begin with. But that's just quick thoughts and the fact the meta has a lot more bulky offensive mons may be a misjudgement from me. I'll say that this is one of the biggest reasons why the NFE players find the new tier much harder to adjust because the speed control had one of the biggest changes as I see it honestly.

Keeping it short since I feel like I've lowkey told them, but playstyles such as Pivot Stack, Bulky Offense, and many variants of Setup/Hazard Stack varients type of Offense are the trend. Defensive and slow-paced playstyles have definitely taken a hit though, but I do think Balance is good, eventually. It'll need the other playstyles to be defined more before it will be a staple back to the tier. Stall sucks though even if a slight niche, and I think HO is inconsistent due to bulky mons like Gurdurr and PIloswine but overall needs the meta development before it becomes a thing. Webs may have some good niche perhaps, but needs some time. Sun though is a mad counterpick playstyle that oddly works very well against the trends, but gets folded against a lot of defensive and stall-ish teams tho.


Speaking on mons there are some controversial mons I want to talk about that I expect to happen more at UMPL tbh.

:Gurdurr:
This Pokemon screams 100% problematic as I see it. The end goal with this mon to become a problem is basically finding the right team to let it bypass its checks because Gurdurr has the ability to easily tear apart any of its defensive checks if given the right move. In Gen 8, Gurdurr didn't have a singular counter(Except for Golbat before banned aight...), but it had a 4mss struggle since the defensive checks also covered most of Gurdurr's moveset that Gurdurr's coverage against the checks were pretty weak. But in this meta right now, I feel like Gurdurr has just the right checks where it doesn't feel like it's a huge problem to cover against all of its checks at once. That's why I think Gurdurr is someone I can see becoming a problem overall. If there is something bad I could say about Gurdurr, it's probably that the Defog set is going to not age well in my opinion bc I think offensive sets are getting better and it's much easier to play around Defog Gurdurr imo.
If you look at the current UMPL replays, every team had a mon required vs. Gurdurr and shared the same one. Obviously, they use it bc they're good against other things, but I believe they're mainly there just bc of Gurdurr enforces any teams to begin with. So what Pokemon are the Gurdurr checks?
:Clefairy: is the clear best one as it threatens out Gurdurr and has such a flexible defensive synergy for most teams. It doesn't lose much long-term due to Trick which creates a lot of tricky scenarios, especially for teams that don't take account of it.
:Koffing: is arguably the 2nd best since it has a huge amount of different attributes that annoy Gurdurr, and it has its own strong thing I'll talk about later.
:Weepinbell: is arguably 3rd third-best one. In theory, it checks against every Gurdurr sets since it can hit 180, has strength sap/synthesis, thief, and hits hard. Gives me some huge PhysDef Roselia/Tangela vibes from Gen 8 ngl. Perhaps 2nd best in the future?
:Dartrix: should be mentioned since it has better bulk than all of them and checks most Gurdurr sets. However it struggles against a lot of other things, and unlike all of them loses a lot of long-term momentum as it can't steal an item back.
Having a mon dedicated for Gurdurr is pretty mandatory to make your team work since it just has that type of restricted counterplay. Unless you're building very specific such as HO(Acrobatics Gligar or Pickpocket Tinkatuff example).

:Koffing:
Mentioned him earlier as he's kinda lowkey stupid as fuck. Tspikes + Will O Wisp + Thief is such a huge pain in the ass to switch in, and the hazard control vs it feels straight-up unfair a lot of times. Because of him, I believe your team needs to be bulletproof vs. Toxic Spikes, which 3 of 8 teams from W1 didn't have. That Pokemon can straight-up solo a team that's not prepped vs. him in the building. He has some strong holes to be exploited such as 4mss or being completely unable to break Sub sets.

There are more mons I could talk about but I don't really care enough about those, and I want to talk about the optimal stuff.
So there's a cool core that I am glad to see again. While this was arguably in the last gen, I think it's much better right now due to the distributions increasing the options overall.
What I am talking about is the Thwackey + Water core combo!
The core is very strong for numerous reasons. The Flip Turn distributions create a strong pivot core, especially since a lot of them have the slow + fast pivot synergy. It also helps that a lot of them have some key details that make every one of them unique.
The most important one of this core is that your water type becomes essentially a Piloswine counter if they don't run High Horsepower due to Terrain halving EQ, giving you an opportunity to gain momentum from Piloswine. Couple that with mons with recovery, and you've essentially a long-term strategy to handle vs. Piloswine which is a big deal IMO.
Water types also help Frogadier, a mon that had its controversial strength and you're creating momentum vs. them, which is super good.

:Thwackey: + :Quaxwell: is obviously the easiest one due to Slow Pivot, Spinning + Healing, and the overall bulk. Recommend mixed spread(180/76) with Quaxwell so it can handle Specs(and even sun I guess), and you could even drop speed IVs for the slow pivot creep if you want.
:Thwackey: + :Prinplup: is an interesting one because Thwackey usually invites in Vullaby, so Prinplup can punish Vullaby due to its hidden ability. Couple it with like Misdreavus and you'll probably find something good from here.
:Thwackey: + :Dewott: are the double Knock Off combo. Dewott also hits harder than both above but lacks recovery so it's good to use its offensive.
:Thwackey: + :Corphish: LOL Corphish is probably not that good, especially when Wartortle steals the spot. But unlike all of the above, it can be set up with SD/DD and has Knock + Adaptability Water Attacks which will be hurting extremely hard. Hell, even CB works, but yeah the disadvantage of it is that it can't use flip turn, otherwise, I would have used a CB set.
If you really think about it, Thwackey + Psyduck(Knock, Flip Turn, Nasty Plot) also works but I've not tested that yet so LOL.

Overall I think this is a strong core that can be a staple type of core, especially Quaxwell + Thwackey which feels like essential for pivot teams.

Almost done, just wanna say some quick talks on how hazards are right now.
I think Piloswine, Clef and Spikes Gligar itself have changed the hazard games, and they're common as hell. But I do think the older hazard users are still very solid.
Tinkatuff feels lowkey the best since it can pressure the common defoggers, and cripple Quaxwell, unlike Piloswine. I also assume that Hattrem becomes more viable and Dartrix will fall in usage so Tinkatuff still has it. As for sets, it doesn't have that many changes to begin with but probably invest more physical bulk and some speed creep from my speed creep selection.

Qwilfish-Hisui @ Eviolite
Ability: Intimidate / Poison Point
Impish / Careful Nature
- Spikes / Toxic Spikes
- Barb Barrage
- Crunch
- Taunt / Toxic Spikes

:Qwilfish-Hisui: is a mon where I've been experimenting a lot on the defensive aspect. Can annoy defoggers, spinners, and Defog-Gurdurr since it can wear down the opponent extremely hard with Barb + Poison Point. It can also be a check vs. Clef and Misdreavus, be a t-spikes absorber, and get Taunt to punish Defog. I think you're required to use as much as you can, but if there is a speed creep I would suggest it would be Jolly Nature just for being faster Ada Thwackey since you get slightly more points over the normal nature.

Gligar @ Eviolite
Ability: Immunity
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 80 SpD / 56 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Toxic Spikes
- U-turn

:Gligar: Gligar's a weird one to make a spread on tbh. It can totally be a fast one to threaten Hwilfish and Missy, but it also acts as an excellent slow pivot with more bulk. While I like the spikes aspect, I found Tspikes + EQ + Knock have a lot of untapped potential. If you want to abuse it to the fullest extent, I would recommend having offensive mons that could switch in Piloswine, but as well threaten the poison mons back, hit Tinkatuff and you're good to go.


There are more cores I want to highlight, but I'm feeling too lazy to create them especially since it's late for me. The only thing I would say is that this is one hell of a meta that King Leo V would have dominated early on not gonna lie...
 
Was going to wait till the end of UMPL to make a post but since my team is out no matter how i do week 7 I'll post now

So I present for your consideration: elleapple's metagame thoughts

:piloswine:
Piloswine is the most centralizing mon in the meta right now for sure. boasting a wild 70% usage rate through weeks 1-6 of UMPL (full stats below) Pilo's excellent bulk and devastating stab combo makes it super easy to throw on a team without a second thought, blanket checking a number of threats. Namely all removal save for Quaxwell and Defog Gurdurr, the latter of which is arguably the worst option for Gurdurr's 4th move slot. Being the premier user of Stealth Rocks frees up mons like Clefairy, Tinkaton, and Gligar to run other, more threatening sets. Bulky Attacker isn't the only set pilo can run though. It's very easy to run Choice Band instead, bluffing the standard set and dealing massive damage to Pilo's usual switchins.

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +

| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +

| 1 | Piloswine | 34 | 70.83% | 52.94% |

| 2 | Gurdurr | 28 | 58.33% | 39.29% |

| 3 | Quaxwell | 22 | 45.83% | 59.09% |

| 3 | Qwilfish-Hisui | 22 | 45.83% | 54.55% |

| 3 | Clefairy | 22 | 45.83% | 45.45% |

| 6 | Tinkatuff | 17 | 35.42% | 58.82% |

| 7 | Frogadier | 15 | 31.25% | 60.00% |

| 7 | Gligar | 15 | 31.25% | 60.00% |

| 9 | Misdreavus | 14 | 29.17% | 50.00% |

| 10 | Thwackey | 13 | 27.08% | 46.15% |

| 11 | Koffing | 12 | 25.00% | 58.33% |

| 12 | Sneasel | 10 | 20.83% | 50.00% |

| 13 | Drakloak | 9 | 18.75% | 33.33% |

| 14 | Weepinbell | 7 | 14.58% | 28.57% |

| 15 | Vullaby | 5 | 10.42% | 60.00% |

| 15 | Naclstack | 5 | 10.42% | 60.00% |

| 17 | Dunsparce | 4 | 8.33% | 25.00% |

| 18 | Raboot | 3 | 6.25% | 66.67% |

| 18 | Monferno | 3 | 6.25% | 66.67% |

| 20 | Eelektrik | 2 | 4.17% | 50.00% |

| 20 | Vigoroth | 2 | 4.17% | 50.00% |

| 20 | Vulpix | 2 | 4.17% | 50.00% |

| 20 | Charmeleon | 2 | 4.17% | 50.00% |

| 20 | Lampent | 2 | 4.17% | 50.00% |

| 20 | Sliggoo-Hisui | 2 | 4.17% | 50.00% |

| 20 | Pikachu | 2 | 4.17% | 50.00% |

| 20 | Gabite | 2 | 4.17% | 0.00% |

| 28 | Rufflet | 1 | 2.08% | 100.00% |

| 28 | Fletchinder | 1 | 2.08% | 100.00% |

| 28 | Prinplup | 1 | 2.08% | 100.00% |

| 28 | Hattrem | 1 | 2.08% | 100.00% |

| 28 | Hakamo-o | 1 | 2.08% | 0.00% |

| 28 | Carkol | 1 | 2.08% | 0.00% |

| 28 | Gastly | 1 | 2.08% | 0.00% |

| 28 | Mareanie | 1 | 2.08% | 0.00% |

| 28 | Fraxure | 1 | 2.08% | 0.00% |

| 28 | Hippopotas | 1 | 2.08% | 0.00% |

| 28 | Glimmet | 1 | 2.08% | 0.00% |

| 28 | Crocalor | 1 | 2.08% | 0.00% |

Pilo isn't without offensive checks of course, but its large bulk means it needs to take a large amount of chip damage to be threatened. This chip often happens over the course of the game as Pilo comes in a lot and is a very common lead, but if kept healthy common revenge killers like Frogadier and Thwackey will be caught out and punished heavily. Misdreavus can get a free switch in on a predicted Earthquake but offensive spreads take huge damage from Icicle Crash and imo defensive Missy isn't that good bc it loses the 295 speed tier. Swords Dance Qwilfish-H is a good lategame check with Waterfall/Liquidation, but without a turn to SD its an even matchup vs a healthy Pilo.

Overall I think Piloswine is a very overcentralizing presence, making Quaxwell all but required to consistently do well against it, but its far from the only major threat in NFE right now, not even close.

:gurdurr: Gurdurr is the offensive Knock Off user in NFE right now. Drain Punch/Knock Off/Mach Punch in the first 3 slots are almost required though, Drain and Knock at the very least are. Where Gurdurr both shines and struggles however, is in its 4th move slot, where its able to run 1 of 3 coverage moves (or Defog like mentioned in the Pilo section). My personal hierarchy of coverage goes Poison Jab > Stomping Tantrum > Ice Punch, but of course which move you run depends on what weaknesses you want to cover or which Pokemon you want to bait (Clefairy, Koffing, and Gligar respectively). Dropping coverage or Mach Punch for Bulk Up is also an option, turning an already scary attacker into a full blown wincon, but I personally haven't seen BU sets get much success. Defog in the final slot is a pretty good option if you don't have any other removal, or want to provide some hard removal to teams with a mon I'll mention in a bit. Overall Gurdurr deserves its spot as the number 2 threat in the meta, and is also on my personal ban radar.

:qwilfish-hisui: Qwilfish-H is another incredibly powerful pokemon currently, being the premier Swords Dance sweeper. The Presence of Piloswine and Gligar slow it down quite a bit but once it gets going its quite hard to stop. SD Qwil-H's main weakness is its susceptibility to status, mainly Burn from the ever growing in popularity Koffing, or Thunder Wave from defensive Tinkatuff. These 2 mons are of course heavily threatened by your own Piloswine, making it a powerful parter for Qwil-H. It also has the option of running a defensive spread to quite strong results as well, with access to Spikes and Toxic Spikes as needed, and Barb Barrage to spread Poison. I think if Pilo were to go Qwil-H would get even stronger, probably subbing in the forgotten Gabite for the pig. But as the meta currently stands i think Qwilifish-H is relatively balanced compared to both Piloswine and Gurdurr.

:clefairy: :tinkatuff: Clefairy and Tinkatuff both fill the invaluable role of "Fairy Type That Is Actually Good" so I'm grouping them together. Both get access to Stealth Rocks, Knock Off, and Thunder Wave, making them great utility mons. Clefairy boasts no ground weakness, and access to recovery in Moonlight. Along with Magic Guard and the option of surprising your opponent with Calm Mind, this makes Clef overall stronger in my opinion but Tinkatuff definitely still has its uses. Pickpocket has become the main ability used by Tink since knock off distribution got buffed, allowing it to steal its opponents Eviolite after they hit it with a physical move (namely their own Knock Off) Tinkatuff can also run a Swords Dance set instead of a defensive one, catching opponents off guard if they were expecting a different set. Both Fairies can preform the same general role while filling different niches, or surprise your opponent with a setup set instead. Neither of them are particularly broken, just very strong.

:frogadier: Frogadier potentially has the most set variety of any offensive pokemon in the metagame. Scarf and Specs are the main 2 to look out for, although more niche sets have been used to great success (by me personally no less). Scarf Frog is the premier speed control besides priority, though playing it safe and running Surf over Hydro Pump does leave it lacking in damage. Specs Frogadier on the other hand has the pleasure of being the strongest special attacker in the tier, its only real competition coming from Nasty Plot Misdreavus, which I believe to be just okay in the current meta. Where frogadier sets get real spicy is when you equip... the belt.

Frogadier @ Expert Belt

Ability: Protean

Tera Type: Water

EVs: 96 Atk / 160 SpA / 252 Spe

Naive Nature

- Hydro Pump

- Ice Beam

- Gunk Shot

- U-turn

While the Protean nerf hit this set's viability hard, I still think Expert Belt Frogadier has a niche, being able to bluff Scarf Hydro or Ice Beam into clicking Gunk Shot or U-turn is such a good mix up. The attack Evs are to get better rolls on Clefairy with Gunk Shot, and when I first envisioned this set I had Low Kick for Sneasel (yes even though Frog is slower, that's why I took it off) and 96 Atk was an OHKO with that. Ebelt's only real use with U-turn is to deal more to a Thwackey that expected to switch into a Pump for free, which is still pretty alright, Gunk Shot or Ice Beam on that same switchin are both rolls to OHKO after rocks as well. Another set worth experimenting with is Modest natured scarf Frog, the only thing it's slower than is its Timid counterpart, and the extra Spa allows you to more safely run the consistent Surf over Hydro Pump. The most important Calc being a guaranteed OHKO on a knocked Piloswine after rocks (or the damage from the knock off itself)

252 SpA Frogadier Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Piloswine: 330-390 (81.6 - 96.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Frogadier Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Piloswine: 362-428 (89.6 - 105.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

With its great set variety and ability to offensively check a lot of major players, its no wonder Frogadier is still a top tier in its own right.

:gligar: Not since the darkest days of gen 7 have Gligar and Piloswine shared a metagame together (don't ask). Unfortunately losing roost hit Gligar quite hard, but not hard enough to stop it from being the single best spike setter in the tier. Defensive Gligar with its Evio is bulky, like scary bulky. I slapped the spread Shing posted on to my Week 4 team and that thing Put In Work. No recovery hurts but not when your main goal is to click Spikes, Knock Off, and U-turn; All while taking about 30% from anything not named Ice Beam or Icicle Crash. Pair this thing with a ghost type and those spikes are gonna stay up for a while. SD spreads are probably also good but I don't think I've seen a single one all tour, untapped potential methinks.

:quaxwell: Rounding out the top 5 mons in usage (counting it, Clef and Qwil-H as a shared #3 + Frogadier and Gligar as a shared #5), Quaxwell is a bit of an... ugly duckling. While definitely a good Pokemon in a vacuum (recovery, removal, and pivoting will do that), Quaxwell's rise to the top is most definitely because it's one of the only good switchins to rocks Pilo, while also being able to clear hazards with Rapid Spin against it. the mixed spread Shing has in his post is what I've been using all tour and it's done great. Encore over Surf is a nicher option but its good for punishing passive mons despite it making Quax itself more passive. I don't really have much more to say about this mon, It's the Bulky Water of the generation (for now) and also the best removal option we got with Piloswine keeping most of the other birds grounded.

:misdreavus: Misdreavus is the most underwhelming mon in the meta to me, even at +2 it barely threatens anything that isnt already at death's door. A single knock off from a Gurdurr that you thought would die, or a predicted Icicle Crash from a Piloswine, and your Missy is done. Perhaps I just haven't seen it played right or the right set but every time it clicks an attacking move it never does the correct amount to be actually threatening. A defensive spread might be stronger overall but I'm yet to see anyone make that work either. Missy's main niche is being one of 2 spinblockers, and I honestly think a properly built Drakloak is most likely the better choice in most scenarious (it takes less from Quaxwell Surf and Flip Turn). Knock off distribution was not at all kind to Misdreavus, and many of the new threats make it feel more like dead weight than a wincon.

:thwackey: The undisputed king of gen 8 Volturn is back in a big way thanks to regaining Grassy Glide. Thwackey is the only viable grass type in the tier that isn't Gloom's bulkless cousin, and boy does it deserve that title. Fastest viable mon with priority? Knock access? Grassy Terrain Boosted Wood Hammer??????? Thwackey has crazy potential and it shows. The main set run is Eviolite SD, though im personally a bigger fan of Eviolite 4 attacks instead (the raw damage of Wood Hammer Trumps +2 Glide imo). Thwackey also has the option of Choice Scarf and Choice Band, being good options if you lack either speed control or a powerful breaker. Thwackey's ability to offensively both Frogadier and Piloswine makes it one of the strongest revenge killers in the meta.

:koffing: I don't really have much to say about this guy other than a reccomendation to stop running Sludge Bomb over Toxic Spikes, seems kinda obvious but it's much better to be able to consistently 1v1 the threat youre supposed to counter (Gurdurr) than to get up a hazard that gets removed for free by both Qwil-H and opposing Koffing. Not that Tspikes doesn't have its place, hazard stack is an extremely powerful archetype in the current landscape, but on most teams you're probably better off having more than just thief to deal damage with your Koffing.


:hattrem:
Defog in the final slot is a pretty good option if you don't have any other removal, or want to provide some hard removal to teams with a mon I'll mention in a bit.
MAX SPECIAL ATTACK HATTREM IS THE FUTURE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Literally nobody brought this mon till week 5 of UMPL when I realized that I'd been looking at it all wrong, defensive hattrem was too easy to chip down with Gurdurr and Piloswine, so I decided to simply make a spread that (hopefully) kills them first.

Hattrem (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 24 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Giga Drain
- Nuzzle
- Healing Wish

This set is wonderful because its able to 1v1 both Piloswine and Gurdurr once if its able to get a free turn (or even without one if the opposing mon is knocked first). Giga Drain just barely outheals Pilo EQ and Psychic 2hkos Gurdurr after always living Knock into Mach Punch (even after rocks) Nuzzle is in the third slot because mystical fire isn't really needed to hit anything (Tinkatuff outspeeds, Sneasel is rare) but it can be run either over Nuzzle or Healing Wish, which is in the 4th slot bc its a really good utility move. Hattrem was looked over for all of UMPL and I think its about time she gets her time in the spotlight once again (and this time with an actually fun set to use).

HONORABLE MENTIONS: :sneasel: :vullaby: :rufflet: :pikachu:

Sneasel's claim to fame is being the natural fastest pokemon in the meta, unfortunately the presence of Gurdurr's Mach Punch means making use of that speed can be pretty difficult. Definetly a solid mon, it just requires the right support to make work.

Vullaby is a solid defensive knocker and arguably the 2nd best removal in the meta after Quaxwell. It doesn't threaten Pilo with anything more than a lost Eviolite but its bulk and typing lets it do relatively well against a number of other threats

Flying Resists are all fake so in theory Substitute Bulk-Up rufflet is an amazing wincon, you just need to position it right

252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Piloswine: 328-388 (81.1 - 96%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Pikachu is like almost good in theory.

Well... if you read all that or even skimmed it, thanks for taking the time to do so. This is my first actual Smogon post in probably years so its most likely not the highest of quality, but this is the most fun I've had playing mons and especially NFE since the height of SM so im hoping that I'll stick around and help this meta to thrive again.

TLDR: Suspect Vote on Piloswine after the end of UMPL please.
 
teamdump quickly
Week 1
:eelektrik: :gurdurr: :misdreavus: :piloswine: :qwilfish-hisui: :sneasel: L vs shiloh

Week 2
:eelektrik: :gligar: :gurdurr: :misdreavus: :qwilfish-hisui: :tinkatuff: W vs Spl4sh

Week 3
:frogadier: :koffing: :misdreavus: :quaxwell: :qwilfish-hisui: :tinkatuff:W vs lepton

Week 4
:clefairy: :fletchinder: :piloswine: :qwilfish-hisui: :sliggoo-hisui: :sneasel: W vs clean

Week 5
:drakloak: :gligar: :koffing: :quaxwell: :qwilfish-hisui: :tinkatuff: L vs Mirbro

Week 6
:charmeleon: :clefairy: :quaxwell: :raboot: :vulpix: :weepinbell:W vs shaneghoul (i stole this from Shing )

Semis
:eelektrik: :gurdurr: :piloswine: :qwilfish-hisui: :sneasel: :tinkatuff: L vs justdrew

Finale
:clefairy: :drakloak: :dunsparce: :gurdurr: :hattrem: :qwilfish-hisui: W vs Mirbro

Tiebreak Finale
:clefairy: :naclstack: :quaxwell: :qwilfish-hisui: :sneasel: :tinkatuff: L vs Maybca

Cursed team cooking cooking almost brought it in tiebreak finale
:fletchinder: :naclstack: :piloswine: :quaxwell: :sneasel: :wooper:

Qwilfish is broken, Gurdurr is broken, Piloswine is broken, i can't believe none of those got banned before the end of the tournament lmao

edit: elleapple ty for helping me in playoffs
 
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Teamdum whitout explanation sorry I won’t ;(
Week 2 :
https://pokepast.es/e00ebf70081f6191
Week 4 :
https://pokepast.es/fab4b7bfb427d30c
Week 6 :
https://pokepast.es/d66193d757b9fd98
Week 7 :
https://pokepast.es/e7d9f1f771f2c086
Semi :
https://pokepast.es/543cd7e58fbc8d8d ( broken team ) ( WHIS LAMPENT ) !!!!
Tiebreak final :
https://pokepast.es/397f5eac5cf82c4a G2
https://pokepast.es/6e1d2efdaf30eee2 G1 ( broken team )
I really like the meta rn I don’t know why panda want ban gurdurr and qwilish, suspect is good on qwilish ( or just council action because no Ladd, or similar idea as godly gift idea) pilo is the most broken Mon eviolite is really good to pressure gliglar qwilish tinka and other Mon can put sr and do lot of damage and band is too good to qb is the best action possible I think
But after don’t change the tier is so cool !
 

5Dots

Chairs
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
Hello NFE! We have a massive VR revamp to commemorate the start of a brave new metagame. All council members have weighed their opinions on what currently stands in our VR.
:Misdreavus: -> A+
:Naclstack: -> A
:Qwilfish-Hisui: -> S
:Charmeleon: -> C+
:Clefairy: -> A+
:Vulpix: -> C
:Vulpix-Alola: -> C-
:Weepinbell: -> B+
:Koffing: -> A
:Gligar: -> A+
:Piloswine: -> S
:Dusclops: -> C+
:Munchlax: -> C-
:Grotle: -> C-
:Monferno: -> B+
:Prinplup: -> B
:Gurdurr: -> S
:Lampent: -> B
:Mienfoo: -> C+
:Vullaby: -> B
:Charjabug: -> C-
:Cutiefly: -> C+
:Hakamo-o: -> B+
:Dewott: -> C
:Dragonair: -> C
:Zweilous: -> C
:Hippopotas: -> C-
:Magnemite: -> C-
:Sneasel: B+ -> A
:Hattrem: B -> B+
:Thwackey: B -> A
:Quaxwell: B -> A
:Tinkatuff: -> S -> A+
:Drakloak: -> A -> A-
:Gabite:->
A+ -> B
:Dartrix:->
A -> B-
:Raboot:-> A+ -> B+
:Sliggoo-Hisui:-> A- -> B-
:Toedscool:-> A- -> C
:Girafarig:-> A- -> B
:Mareanie:-> A- -> B
:Vigoroth:-> A- -> B+
:Pikachu:-> B+ -> B-
:Crocalor:-> B+ -> C+
:Eelektrik:-> B+ -> B
:Meditite:-> B+ -> C-
:Pawniard: B+ -> C
:Stantler: B+ -> C+
:Fletchinder:-> B -> B-
:Glimmet:-> B -> C
:Murkrow:-> B -> C
:Morgrem: -> B -> C+
:Quilladin:-> B- -> C+
:Rufflet:-> B- -> C
:Braixen:-> B- -> C
:Arctibax:-> C -> UR
:Floragato:-> C -> C-
:Foongus: C -> C-
:Gastly: C -> UR
:Grimer-Alola:-> C -> C-
:Growlithe-Hisui:-> C -> C-
:Krokorok:-> C -> C-
:Kubfu: -> C -> UR
That's all for this slate! Votes for this slate are here. We encourage players to post some nominations on rises and drops on the meta as we prepare for the second DLC.
 
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A couple of teams I worked on throughout dlc1 + discussion.

:dusclops: :quaxwell: :gligar: :crocalor: :grimer-alola: :clefairy: tspikes stall
This team originated from Grantlbart10 suggestion of haze prinplup, and my offering to pair it with dusclops and spite mons, close to 3 months ago. (early team concept) Prinplup was soon replaced with eviolite quax, and a few revisions later I posted the team on discord. Grant hadn't gotten credit, and I never got to discuss in depth how the team functions and its interactions with meta teams, so now let's do just that.

You have a set of extremely sturdy walls that cover the entire meta in a vacuum. However, as items get manipulated and hazards get set, things start falling apart and you're forced to make trades with opp. Your wincon is to outlast the wallbreakers, taking care that you don't proceed to get cleaned up.



:gligar:
Gligar will often be your lead, as you can taunt a fellow hazard lead or set a hazard right away. Vullaby teams are especially vulnerable to taunt. Otherwise try not to overrely on gligar, as it's your only mon without recovery, and pass it wishes often. Mons like monferno in particular are good targets to switch gligar into, those that can run many offensive sets (sd, np, cb, specs, mixed). You can also save gligar to take one big hit later and retaliate.

Gligar can't break rest hat, so you have to break that kind of team without hazards - grimer's poison can help, gligar + dusclops can stall out hat's rest (if opp tries to prevent this, you can try to land a wisp or hazard).

I don't remember what this spread does exactly but at full hp it can take some crazy hits:

+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Fraxure Outrage vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Eviolite Gligar: 252-297 (75.4 - 88.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Gurdurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Eviolite Gligar: 196-232 (58.6 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Thwackey Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Eviolite Gligar in Grassy Terrain: 198-234 (59.2 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Qwilfish-Hisui Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Eviolite Gligar: 206-244 (61.6 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Monferno Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Gligar: 262-310 (78.4 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Surf vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Eviolite Gligar: 142-168 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charmeleon Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Eviolite Gligar in Sun: 232-274 (69.4 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



:dusclops:
Dusclops is so mind-bogglingly fat, that it's your primary answer to both gurr and pilo. You should keep its eviolite intact until it can scout pilo for cb; there are other checks to gurr to use early game in gligar, clef, croc. Other strong cb users like stantler, raboot, and ig floragato, hgrowlithe, and whatever else so long as you're mindful of knock, can all be walled or at least scouted by dusclops.

Another perk of having this guy on your team is pressure. It can give you the upper hand against similarly passive teams, only if you can punish endless switching, which passive damage from hazards and status does. Your night shade pp isn't infinite, either, and in fact you should use it deliberately from the start with a target and objective in mind.

Stay away from opposing night shade from clef, missy, dart etc. You're clean 3hko'd, which means you can't pp stall it with rest. Don't worry too much about losing your eviolite, though, as you'll find that dusclops ends up itemless one way or another just about every game. The given evs outspeed +1 curse pilo (unless it's 8 spe curse pilo or something dumb like that!) and dump physdef.

252+ Atk Choice Band Piloswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 91-108 (32 - 38%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Piloswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Dusclops: 136-162 (47.8 - 57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Gurdurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 82-98 (28.8 - 34.5%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock



:quaxwell:
Boots quax is your ""hazard removal"". More often that not, the hazards are going to stay up on your side all game, either due to a ghost or just sheer pressure. You have to set hazards of your own and deny opp removal in turn. Or situationally force them to defog.

This particular quax has evs to survive one more uturn from frog and dumps spdef so it can take specs hydros. Boots come into play when opp clicks spikes on frog and proceeds to spinblock you. That spike might chip 3/6 of your team, but won't make any progress towards breaking quax, effectively preventing a frog sweep later. Protect scouts choice locked thwackey, pilo, raboot etc. that frog might position in front of you.

Quax getting specs tricked instantly turns it into dead weight. Don't attempt to save it at the cost of another teammate; just use grimer or dusclops to check the now-weaker frog.

252+ Atk Choice Band Piloswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Quaxwell: 297-351 (86.3 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Frogadier Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 184+ SpD Quaxwell: 105-125 (30.5 - 36.3%) -- 55.5% chance to 3HKO



:crocalor:
Croc counters most of the relevant setup mons, but is vulnerable to hazards due to weak removal so use it sparingly. A bulking gurr, qwil at +2, or any frax are appropriate threats to throw your croc at.

Speaking of frax, this mon's been a rare sight, but has the potential to really mess up this team, especially if it gets in on quax. Taunt it in case it's low speed, wisp or poison it if you can, attack with clef, otherwise fall back to croc: (assuming it sd on your switch) wisp first, as that instantly neutralizes 3 atk sets. If it subs on your wisp, roar; if it taunts you, mudslap as many times as you can. Hopefully you'll get to moonblast it afterwards.

252+ Atk Gurdurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Crocalor: 100-118 (27.3 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

0 SpA Crocalor Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr: 102-121 (27.2 - 32.3%) -- 21.8% chance to 3HKO

+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Fraxure Outrage vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Eviolite Crocalor: 229-271 (62.5 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

0 SpA Clefairy Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Fraxure: 234-276 (85.7 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO



:clefairy:
Clef is your check to nacl, secondary check to either one of gurr or pilo, and gligar's only hope for recovery. Trick was dropped in favor of encore to properly check curse nacl and to open up the space for niche moves on quax and croc. You will be mostly spamming wish tect - the games don't last long enough for wish to run out (unless you match into someone such as me).

252+ Atk Choice Band Piloswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Clefairy: 165-195 (47.9 - 56.6%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Piloswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Clefairy: 141-166 (40.9 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

4 Atk Naclstack Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Clefairy: 86-102 (25 - 29.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO



:grimer-alola:
The team of 5 above has a severe weakness to ghosts and lacks item manipulation and the ability to inflict status in presence of taunt spam. Grimer's your man. Its set had been a huge pain to figure out - initially rest mean look acid armor, which flopped, then experimentation with spite, which sucked. Given set works well enough, though I know you can get away with replacing pjab, I enjoy grimer acting as a clef check without the risk of losing its eviolite to trick. Do play around - taunt could be a fine option there.

Grimer's bizarre spread survives one ada pilo eq from full, and underspeeds min spe eel as a countermeasure to eel bringing in a threat via slow uturn.

0 Atk Grimer-Alola Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Clefairy: 108-128 (31.3 - 37.2%) -- 78.6% chance to 3HKO

+2 252 SpA Misdreavus Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 184+ SpD Eviolite Grimer-Alola: 103-122 (28.2 - 33.5%) -- 97.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Piloswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Eviolite Grimer-Alola: 306-362 (84 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



These are roomtour win replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nfe-1950759335
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nfe-1956447091

:bronzor: :qwilfish-hisui: :naclstack: :drakloak: :gurdurr: :clefairy: brain damage stall
I had to burn through 2 other attempts, take a month long break, run tests (ty Shing ) and have some sleep deprivation before this team came to me.

Your wincon is to get more hazards up than opp does and then chip them to death with salt cure and drakloak. But don't hesitate to defog, even at a seeming advantage, if your team is in danger due to them. Until you confirm a path to victory, survival > offense.



:qwilfish-h:
Namesake of the team, your bold qwil is a designated counter to opposing qwil. "Why on earth," you might be thinking. "What is wrong with you?"

Qwil is actually the most consistent progress maker against any defensive-leaning team, with its sd spikes set. It breaks right through physdef rest talk gurr - another attempt of mine to counter qwil - all on its own, except if gurr gets knocked first it'll drop even sooner. So this team even has several additional answers to qwil - salt cure, gurr, and fast drakloak.

You'll notice that your qwil is pretty bad at checking ghosts. The intended answers are curse nacl for missy and clef for drakloak, but watch out for trick np missy. Sometimes it's a good idea not to switch immediately and press spikes or barb if a ghost's staying in on your qwil. Taunt is mostly there for vullaby, but can help with progress against walls and poisoned ghosts.

8 SpA Qwilfish-Hisui Mud Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Qwilfish-Hisui: 56-66 (20.6 - 24.3%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

+3 252 Atk Qwilfish-Hisui Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Eviolite Qwilfish-Hisui: 101-119 (30.2 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock



:clefairy:
You have spdef clef specifically to check frog, but it's still able to wish on the more passive mons like drakloak, vullaby, eel etc. Note that due to this choice you get counter-teamed by ebelt frog. In that case I suggest reporting opp to the authorities for mu fishing. ...

Jokes aside, you have to accept that no team can cover all sets of every mon. That's how a healthy meta functions; otherwise, it would be solved in a boring way with no team variety. Here, your options are to play aggressively by doubling into gurr or qwil or hope that opp chokes.

It's got 0 spe ivs to underspeed min spe eel, which would otherwise knock and slow uturn all over the team and safely bring in wallbreakers. You could instead make nacl fulfill this role, or both, but nacl won't be able to replace its eviolite unlike clef.

Make sure to be deliberate when it comes to letting your clef get knocked, because without it your clef is useless defensively.

252 SpA Choice Specs Frogadier Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 126-148 (36.6 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Frogadier Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefairy: 187-222 (54.3 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Gurdurr High Horsepower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Clefairy: 174-205 (50.5 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



:bronzor:
Bronzor here does little more than hard counter pilo and cause emotional damage to opp if they lose. It defensively synergizes with qwil by giving it an escape from pilo switchin, and with clef by exploiting its juicy wishes and running to it from frog/drakloak/whatever. Nacl is also nice for switching into fire and ghost types like charmeleon, missy, etc.

You're looking to set rocks with bronzor, making reads with skill swap if hat is present, and to spread para on mons like vul. If you get para on opposing gurr, you actually want to skill swap it before switching out. That mon is the top threat to this team.

252+ Atk Choice Band Piloswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Eviolite Bronzor: 54-63 (16.9 - 19.8%) -- guaranteed 6HKO

20 SpA Bronzor Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Piloswine: 102-120 (25.2 - 29.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO



:naclstack:
Nacl is surprisingly good at forcing win-win scenarios late game simply by pressing salt cure. Its low usage can be attributed to it offering rather specific and mediocre (for a balance team) defensive utiliy, a good chunk of which overlaps with qwil. Adding a vulnerability to gurr and pilo is also a hefty burden on any team.

You'll find attempts at a curse sweep fall flat, because once nacl loses eviolite it's fairly simple to break. The setup option is there moreso for boosting heavy slam, which is otherwise not enough to break np missy or cm clef. I would've put protect there if not for those two.

+2 252 SpA Misdreavus Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 244+ SpD Eviolite Naclstack: 83-98 (25.6 - 30.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

+1 16 Atk Naclstack Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 89-105 (34 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 16 Atk Naclstack Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Clefairy: 172-204 (50 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Qwilfish-Hisui Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Naclstack: 218-258 (67.4 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Gligar Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Naclstack: 116-138 (35.9 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO



:gurdurr:
Gurr is your emergency hazard removal and a dedicated knock absorber, from vul, glig, sneasel, thwackey, vig etc. It's your counterlead to glimmet HO (this doesn't really exist though). One of your better switchins to tink, dunsparce, frax. Be extremely wary of sd gligar; depending on its set, it could be walled by bronzor, or it could 6-0 you in the right conditions.

Play thief on gurr with great care, for if you take eviolite from a clef switchin, later on your clef will be denied trick.

Gurr lives +2 acro gligar from full and has just enough spe evs to finish off -3 jolly qwil after yours chips it down with mudshot.

+2 252 Atk Gligar Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 176 Def Eviolite Gurdurr: 314-372 (84.1 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Fraxure Outrage vs. 248 HP / 176 Def Eviolite Gurdurr: 189-223 (50.6 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Tinkatuff Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 176 Def Gurdurr: 116-138 (31 - 36.9%) -- 65.4% chance to 3HKO



:drakloak:
Drakloak is your ghost of choice because it's fast, it checks sun, and your team handles pilo well. Given evs outspeed timid pika - including the base 85 danger squad - then dump spdef. You should use drakloak in early to mid game to spinblock, check specific mons like raboot, dunsparce, koffing etc, and revenge kill threats. Opp will switch in clef if they brought one, which gives you a couple of options: switch to a mon that threatens both clef and the worn down threat to prevent wish pass, or you can press night shade two more times to force another wish.

Late game you can try to position a sufficiently worn down team to force a kill with night shade (borderline op move, should be looked into if the meta slows down enough). You have okay answers to typical revenge killing options for drakloak - frog, pilo, sneasel, most scarfers.

0 SpA Clefairy Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Eviolite Drakloak: 134-158 (39.5 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Clefairy Night Shade vs. 248 HP Drakloak: 100-100 (29.4 - 29.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO



A roomtour win replay and screenshot of another
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nfe-1999658163
Screenshot_2023-12-01_21-25-31.png

(I don't touch on the subject of tiering activity, in case you're looking for my thoughts on the controversial mons.)



Stall is definitely a matchup fish. You're likely to lose if opp is running a set like sd taunt on frax/qwil/gligar with wish support, or if opp has a rest hat you're likely to resort to pp stalling it, giving opp plenty of time to beat down your team with hazards and knock. Neither is unreasonable to bring on a balance team.

It's not a *bad* matchup fish, though, as it does exploit some current trends like mach punch gurr (one coverage move), pickpocket tink (nacl twave immunity), modest hat (no longevity) etc. Speaking of hat.

"Hat sounds like *the* mon to put on this kind of team."
Rest talk, sure, go for it. The reason I don't have any here is that you'd have to build around that mon from the start. With the perks and drawbacks of what is practically a 5 mon team with a powerful hazard deterrant in mind. Notably you don't get to bounce specific spike setters (qwil, koffing, frog), but most tink have dropped mold break by now.



It's doubly important that you decide at team preview who will lose its eviolite to what, in which scenario. You don't necessarily have to remove items from opp to win, because you're dealing damage in chips over a relatively long game. But losing eviolite on the wrong mon can put your entire team on a timer and force you to make reads just to not insta-lose. Specifically getting clef knocked and failing to replace its eviolite will result in it (or the rest of your team) dying very fast.

Recognizing the top threats to your team is also relatively more important because you're not running a sweeper that can win you the game before said threats do. That's more of an offense thing.

As a general rule, don't hesitate to let go of a mon that's fulfilled its purpose. Don't be afraid to trade mons. Throw your ghost at a gurdurr just to deny it recovery. Make a thwackey kill itself with a wood hammer into your nacl. Whatever works. Balance walls aren't going to outlast yours without their wallbreakers to support.



Now let's get into some specific takes.

Full physdef gurr is a bad set because acting as a knock absorber and a qwil answer overwhelms it very quickly. It's also turbo passive that way. Always use ada with hp investment and maybe wish support.

Trick barb clef has immense potential on physdef sets: it's not expected (unless you lead with it), it can bluff spdef, it's likely to get an eviolite in turn. Most significantly it has the potential to instantly turn the match into a 5v6, on the condition that opp doesn't scout your clef with their own. This can backfire, though, if a trick user gets the barb and makes good reads. Trick users that can be used as an answer to clef are trick np missy, the rare lampent, possibly shroodle. You can also attempt to directly transfer the barb to an itemless mon; for example, if a knocked gurr were to click knock on your clef switchin, the barb would stick to it, leaving your clef itemless, and the gurr on a nasty timer.

Fletchinder is a deceptively sturdy option when supported properly - hat covers most of its needs by itself. With an eviolite, it counters both gurr and pilo, a niche only shared with dusclops afaik. The most gurr can ever do is roll for pjab poison, and pilo has to be not choice locked to even attempt to break fletch - eq on a roost would do it, but fletch can read that and wisp, too. It doesn't check pilo well without eviolite, and having given it some thought I'm going to say eviolite fletch > boots fletch.

Mons like quilladin and grotle - defensive grass types - are unusable in the current setting. Even with niches like countering quax as hazard setters, elec + water resists for pika. Too much of te meta is hostile to them: hat switches in all day, every defogger beats them, qwil and ghosts exploit them like crazy. I know weepinbell worked for some as a gurr check, but to me it seems like a downgrade from koffing, perhaps desperately chosen for a better mu against pika. I do think it has unexplored potential elsewhere in that juicy movepool though (reflect weepinbell anyone?).

4 atks mixed pika >>> other sets rn. You're vulnerable to every priority, and there's plenty of that being thrown around. No hp to setup with or waste on sub, either. I don't believe in knock pika, unless maybe on HO, just let your teammates do it. It's not even good coverage (the correct set is volt tackle play rough surf volt switch).

I have too many disagreements with the current VR to be bothered with listing here, maybe another time.



Bonus rant:

"This is'nt stall! it's fat balance/semistall/whatever."
The fuck makes a stall team, anyway? Anything that can make an opposing mon die is inherently threatening/pressuring, so you can't say any successful team isn't either of those. So what if there are some turbo passive mons, or if there are some very strong and bulky mons? The objective is the same whether playing stall or HO. Individual mons are meaningless when it comes to categorizing a team, it's the combination of 6 that forms a comprehensible strategy and playstyle.

The widely accepted definition appears to be something like "team makes progress mostly through direct damage". Which does fit both team, but also a huge chunk of nfe is its hazard meta, spreading status, and spamming night shade, so it might be difficult to draw a line. My idea of stall in nfe is exchanging your sweepers and wallbreakers for significantly more freedom in making safe and midground plays. Your scouting early on is less punishable than it would be on a balance team. Still, the current meta rewards making aggressive reads and long term planning, and stall is no exception, especially when it comes to handling That One Mon that fucks up your team.
 

5Dots

Chairs
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
Hello NFE! A new DLC metagame has arrived, and that is the Indigo Disk! And with it, comes a new wave of Pokemon! The list of new Pokemon is provided here.
Bulbasaur
Ivysaur
Squirtle
Wartortle
Oddish
Gloom
Tentacool
Doduo
Seel
Exeggcute
Rhyhorn
Rhydon
Horsea
Seadra
Elekid
Electabuzz
Magby
Magmar
Porygon
Porygon2
Chikorita
Bayleef
Totodile
Croconaw
Chinchou
Snubbull
Tyrogue
Treecko
Grovyle
Torchic
Combusken
Mudkip
Marshtomp
Trapinch
Vibrava
Feebas
Beldum
Metang
Cranidos
Shieldon
Snivy
Servine
Tepig
Pignite
Blitzle
Drilbur
Cottonee
Scraggy
Minccino
Solosis
Duosion
Joltik
Golett
Espurr
Inkay
Litten
Torracat
Popplio
Brionne
Pipipek
Trumbeak
Dewpider
Cosmog
Cosmoem
Milcery
Duraludon
I will also provide a list of notable NFEs I think may be worth examining. This may very well change in the future. Stay tuned for updates:
Ivysaur
Wartortle
Rhydon
Electabuzz
Magmar
Porygon2
Combusken
Metang
Servine
Pignite
Duosion
Duraludon
 

5Dots

Chairs
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
To commemorate the release of DLC2 and a renewed ladder, we have organized a ban slate that is live now! A 3/5 majority vote was required for a Pokemon's ban. Mirbro has abstained from voting in this slate. The candidates were Duraludon, Porygon2, Qwilfish-Hisui, and Rhydon. Here are the results:
SVNFEBanSlate.png

Stay tuned for more updates! If there are any Pokemon you'd see have tiering action, explain why! Your input is valuable for the NFE metagame.
 
Are cutiefly and charjabug not simply better options as they have more utility, offensive pressure, more speed and bulk respectively than surskit?
This is rather a very old post you replied in here where those mons didn't exist at that point.

Hey everyone! i'm new on the forums but i think NFE might be my calling in comp pokemon. is there a discord i could join? also is there a way to ladder this format i really wanna test things out
Also, cool to hear you're interested in NFE! The link is on the front side, but I'll give it to you here so you don't need to look for it again: https://discord.com/invite/af2bavd
 

5Dots

Chairs
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
Even though this is only the first round for the Kickoff tour, we've got another slate to present:
NFEBanSlate.png


:SV/Dipplin: :SV/Sneasel::sv/Vulpix:
Dipplin, Sneasel, and Vulpix have been banned from NFE! Tagging Kris and Marty to implement. For those participating in Kickoff, these changes will be applied starting from Round 2. We also have discussed about other candidates like Electabuzz and Ivysaur, but we feel that these Pokemon need to have more play before seeing discussion.
 

TTK

First Impression
is a Community Contributor
I started playing NFE again after DLC2 dropped after basically skipping SS NFE. Maybe I want to relive the SM NFE days but I have to say I haven't had this much fun with the format since then. I did give NFE a shot pre DLCs but it didn't stick but now, it's definitely one of my favourite metas to play. This post will just be my thoughts on the metagame.

Some of the new additions that DLC2 brought were meta defining. Let us start off with :electabuzz:. Electabuzz getting Knock Off was pretty beneficial for it. Historically, Ebuzz has always been the fastest mon that was hard to switch into, now that it has such an insane progress making tool in Knock Off, it certainly is one of the best mons in the format. I like :magmar: for that same reason, it also got Knock Off and is pretty comparable to Ebuzz. It's certainly not as strong viability wise as Ebuzz since it's slower and rock weak, mandating hazard removal if you want to use it (or going boots) but I like Choice Specs Magmar. You may be trading the utility of Knocking off eviolites but there isn't much that likes switching into Magmar, especially with hazards up. There's many other mons I would like to try out (:pignite:, my baby :seadra:) but I may not explain myself well starting from here but I don't feel like I can really deviate from a certain way of building in this tier. This is caused by what I think to be overcentralisation. "What is causing this?" You may ask me. Let's get into this.

:qwilfish-hisui:/:gurdurr:

From the decent number of games I've played post DLC2 release date, I think these 2 are probably the most controversial mons in the tier for me. Qwilfish-H I feel is just a little too good at what it does and it warps the tier around itself. Good stats, ability, movepool, typing, there's not much Qwilfish-H is bad at except special attacking. It will Taunt, it will Spike up, take hits from most physical attackers in the tier meanwhile it dishes out good damage itself, consistent status with Barb Barrage and even set up a SD and take down most of the meta. Is it impossible to prep for in the builder? Not really, we do have a decent number of grounds to reliably check it but Qwilfish can be paired with pretty much anything that handle its checks (:thwackey:) and it just is too hard to deal with sometimes.

Gurdurr on the other hand is like the easiest mon to win with in this tier. Gurdurr easily takes advantage of the more bulkier mons and common trends thanks to Qwilfish usage (grounds, Quaxwell etc) and just starts setting up. It doesn't help when Gurdurr has the 3rd highest attack in the tier, has Knock Off to weaken defensive checks and has STAB priority to revenge kill offence. Gurdurr also can't be crippled by burn thanks to Guts and takes advantage of poison and paralysis from things like :qwilfish-hisui: and :dunsparce:. This is a mon you have to prep for, or else you will just lose. I've played quite a number of games where it ends up being Gurdurr vs Gurdurr +6atk +6def and I can't say I like that. In previous gens like SS, you could Toxic the Gurdurr, sure it would activate Guts but at least it was on a timer. There just isn't anything in the long term that can punish Gurdurr consistently. Killing it could make you certainly lose one mon minimum into another being heavily chipped. Sometimes it doesn't even feel like Gurdurr has weaknesses other than Fairy, we don't have a lot of Psychics, Flying is also a scarce type but at least with fairies, you have :clefairy: and :tinkatuff: which can knock, encore, do SE dmg vs Gurdurr and pressure it.

There are obviously other mons I find to be incredibly good. :piloswine:, :gligar:, :magmar:, :dunsparce: and many others but Qwilfish and Gurdurr just stick out like sore thumbs and I can't say I wouldn't mind having a conversation about Gurdurr. I recall seeing some discussion regarding :electabuzz: but idt Electabuzz is that bad. It makes a lot of progress throughout a game, it makes a lot of trades and isn't just a mon that clicks buttons, outspeeds everything and kills everything. Let's say it didn't have Knock Off, it would always have to wary of Piloswine because Focus Blast does 62 max and you're also risking 70% so most time you wouldn't take that risk, but with Knock Off, it knocks as pilo comes in, you can then swap out then always not mind taking the risk with Focus Blast later, killing because it will always kill.

Now back to overcentralisation and why I feel restrained, I feel like rn you have to use these mons, I have to slap a Qwilfish, I have to slap a Gurdurr, Ebuzz, Ground type. That's already 4 slots my friends. I can understand a limited pool of good mons (I played DPP NFE) but there is a lack of creativity that just irks me. Overall, that's all I got to say. The tier is fun, but these issues I went through in this post could be looked into I think and I'm excited to see how the meta develops from here on out. The Dipplin ban certainly was needed and I'm happy it's gone.
 

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